Talk:Lancer (Galehaut)/@comment-38782751-20190311214334
Just wanted to elaborate on my statements regarding Lancer's noble phantasm, since the Twitch chat was not the best platform for discussion. My point was that while the ability to theoretically one-shot your opponent can be powerful, it requires a rather high chance to hit per attack to even be worth attempting, and those odds need to be better than what Logan considers them to be. Taking the potential fatigue from missing out of the equation, I see the tipping point of the phantasm being worth doing as being when your chance to hit all of your normal attacks in a row (4 in lancer's case) to be around 50%. In other words, 4+ to hit on a normal attack, or an 8+ on an attack with advantage. For context, the chance of lancer hitting that 31 hit streak was just 3.8%, but 10% to miss on the first attack. The reason I seem fixated on four attacks specifically, is because missing a normal attack won't stop Lancer from continuing the chain, meaning he will do more attacks on average than with the Noble Phantasm if the target is difficult to hit. Now, if I were to be pedantic on statistics, the tipping point of usefulness for Endless Night is actually a bit better than 50% for 4+ chain, but I think that is more than counteracted by the possible frustration of missing in the first two attacks. Which brings me to my original assertion that while that Noble Phantasm can be powerful, it is also very situational against a non-weak enemy as it pretty much requires multiple buffs and an advantage to achieve it's potential. And in Logan's games at least, the point at which the characters are able to get the buffs and an advantage against their main enemy, is also the point where they've already endured the worst and already winning the fight. There's also the opportunity cost involved in setting up the Endless Night, so when counting the total damage dealt, that also has to be included. And even with a good setup there is a nonzero chance of the Noble Phantasm missing immediately. That does actually contrast rather well with the general philosophy of 5e, which is that high level abilities should do something even on failure. Spells starting with Fireball through Meteor Storm which do half-damage on save are prime examples, but that does extend to a lot of the other abilities as well. I don't particularly like 5e overall, but that part I actually really do appreciate, as it does really help reduce frustration. Which brings me to the fatigue (was missing a turn also?) effect on a miss. (I seem to remember it only being on a miss, but the wiki doesn't say that?) Now instead of the frustration of missing your turn you can also cripple yourself for the rest of the fight! It basically cements the already situational and extremely RNG ability to be even more situational, pretty much cementing it's use only as a finisher. Now even a successful 10+ hits use can just torpedo Lancer's usefulness afterwards should the fight continue. To be honest, I'd say that compared to Noble Phantasms like Berserker's petrification, Assassin's sealing, or really any other servant's nonsense, it is rather underwhelming, but since I am sure Lancer is still keeping his some cards hidden I will not say that. After writing so many words dissing that Noble Phantasm however, I would actually like to propose a way I see to improve it. Take it for as you will. I will not take it personally if the suggestions are discarded. First, to fix the frustration of Lancer missing his first attack: If the user makes less attacks with his phantasm than there are attacks with his action, the phantasm never really kicks off. The use is counted, but there are no negative consequences otherwise. Second, to deal with the RNGfest of fatigue: Lancer accumulates a level of exhaustion per 8 strikes, with every point after the first only affecting him of a short time. I believe that'd be both more realistic and rewarding. You made 20 successful attacks? You'll have earned that fatigue. At that point you can wear it with pride. Meanwhile, a short streak won't be as frustrating. And while we're at it, make the exhaustions constituion DC rise with the number of strikes in a chain because why not. Now, that does somewhat mean that there is a softcap of 47 strikes unless Lancer wants to risk death from exhaustion, which does technically go against the concept of making infinite attacks. Practically however? What is there even that would be able to survive 47 hits against Lancer? That's basically it. I wanted to comment on Youtube, but Google was being a dick, so I'm posting here.